Foundations of Love: 5 Strategies of a Healthy Relationship With Akili Carter Part 1 of 2

Join the conversation with Lisa and special guest Akili Carter, as we cut through the Valentine's Day noise and get real about love and relationships. With Akili's unique blend of personal experience and professional expertise in counseling couples, we uncover the raw truth about what makes a relationship thrive and offer revelations that could redefine your approach to love.

Takeaways

Men and Women process things differently in relationships
False Narratives are communication sabotagers
Arguing in a relationship is an opportunity for growth


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Chapters

• 0:10 Keys to a Successful Relationship
• 9:08 Understanding Communication in Relationships
• 13:41 Communication and False Narratives in Relationships
• 22:55 Communication and Relationship Dynamics
• 32:03 Understanding Narcissism and Communication in Relationships

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:10

Welcome to LAGO. My name is Lisa. Join me on the journey in having real raw and uncomfortable discussions about fitness, health and everything in between, because, let's be honest, this journey would suck if we don't get our shit together. Okay, welcome back everyone. Welcome back to the LAGO podcast. My name is Lisa, I am your host and today we have a special guest.

Speaker 2: 0:44

So, as we know, valentine's Day is coming up and February is the month of love and as we are going through, you know, you know we're going to be celebrating love and Valentine's Day. Let's talk about, like, what does a real healthy relationship even looks like? Because I often think that when Valentine's Day comes, everyone's just into the hype, they drink the juice, and then we forget, like, okay, wait a minute. Like these are relationships and what does that even mean? And I can honestly say for myself I'm always in conflict with you know myself and what you know, what I think is a healthy relationship, and doing my own healing on what a healthy relationship should be looking like. So one of the folks that I often reach out to when I have doubt in my own, my own understanding of what men bring to the table and is my special guest, akili Carter, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2: 1:54

Akili. Hello Lisa, good afternoon. How are you? That's not how you usually sound when I call you, but, um, no, akili has been someone that I've actually met through very strange circumstances, and one of the things, one of the reasons why we're still friends, is because we both have a therapy background and we kind of meshed and connected in that way, and I've actually been on Akili's show multiple times. He has his own YouTube channel and we've done a couple of lives together and I've always wanted him to come on the show because, well, I'm going to let him introduce himself, and so you know why I have him on the show. So go ahead and introduce yourself.

Speaker 1: 2:41

Okay, I'm Akili Carter. I am a licensed mental health counselor at LMHC. I also do behavior work. I'm currently building my private practice. I do specialize in autism, I specialize in ADHD and I specialize in couples and also teens, so those are kind of the groups that I kind of gravitate towards. So I see a lot of overlapping of all the things.

Speaker 1: 3:10

I've actually just had to deal with a 13 year old breakup. It was interesting because she was really upset and she was going through it, so I thought that was. It's fun that you at funny, that you asked me about the whole relationships, because one of the first things I asked her when she told me about their relationship, I said well, are you going to be able to handle it? Are you ready for a relationship? And a lot of times I ask my friends and people that I work with. I actually answer two questions does the person treat you well and are they nice to you? And that's what I think is kind of the foundation of a successful, you know relationship and how it could be set the groundwork for it to be successful.

Speaker 2: 3:54

Yeah, but the thing I love about you don't get gassed up now.

Speaker 2: 3:58

I think I love about you is that you are very it is tough love Like. I go to you because you give me tough love with good, with kids gloves, you give me tough love with kids gloves, and I think that you asked the most important that you ask important questions and you also come from a male perspective, who also is very in touch with his emotions and feelings and has a high emotional IQ, and you have experience with couples and you know, I just think that you bring a lot to the table. So that's really why I wanted you here, because you were going to get some truths. We're going to be dropping some bombs truth bombs and Achilles is going to tell it how it is. He's a no nonsense man. He tells it how it is, whether you like it or not. So, with that being said, let's first start with why did you? How did you become a therapist? And I always wonder that myself. How did you get started?

Speaker 1: 5:03

That's a funny story. I was actually finishing. I finished undergraduate school and I was looking for graduate school programs. I write my driver relationship book. It's called Love and Poetry. I also liked. I was a history major and I was an English major.

Speaker 1: 5:18

I was trying to find where I wanted to go with my life. My ex-wife fiance at the time said she was going into middle of counseling and you know I should try it. So what really drew me to it was the fact that you know she pointed out you know you're a really good listener that I do feel like I'm a good listener and I feel like I can provide balance. I try not whenever I talk to anybody about relationships and stuff like that, I try my best to really go right down. People hate it. They hate it that they just want me to be like well, what can you do? I can't you tell me what to do? It's not my job. I try to present logic and I try to present, you know, from a male to female perspective and female to male perspective. That's how I got into counseling. I did my mental health counseling program graduating 04.

Speaker 1: 6:08

I originally didn't want to go into therapy. Actually it took me a while. I do think that the best therapy is experiential, on top of the knowledge base. I would not have gotten into couples if I didn't feel like, oh, I've been through some shit, like a lot of us. I've been married before, I've been divorced, I've been broken up with by fiance's, I'm now remarried, blended family, all the things that you can imagine stepchildren, real children, child support, all of the rigmaroles that go into couples and relationships I've kind of dealt with. So I think that helps putting perspective into it. And then other part I like to blend in is the fact that I tell people all the time first therapy session as a couple. I don't sugarcoat, I don't put lollipops and skittles on anything. I tell you exactly what I see. And I do like questions because when I leave, when someone leaves a session, I want them to be thinking about what we talked about and this is why I go to you.

Speaker 2: 7:08

So I mean, as a friend, we don't do I go to you for advice, like, as I stated in the introduction of, I feel like Valentine's Day is like this big ass hype and everyone's like, oh my God, I gotta give Valentine's Day, blah, blah, blah. And then you have all these women who are like I don't have a day and they're all upset about it. And then you gotta see everyone posting their roses and their cards and their teddy bears and the mm, mm, mm. And then it's like well, let's take a step back here. First of all, are we doing this just for, like, showing off, or are we really in relationships and what does that really mean?

Speaker 2: 7:50

So let's talk about the success, like what does a successful relationship looks like and what are the strategies? And one of the things I asked Akili before we started this episode was that I did not only want him to talk about from his, you know, being an expert on what are the five key strategies for cultivating a successful relationship, but to also provide some perspectives, because men and women I know this is hard to digest, but men and women are different- they think different, they see things different and that, and I know you could probably attest to the fact that you know, when you're doing therapy, that you know one woman the one, the wife is saying this and she thinks how do you not see it?

Speaker 2: 8:39

And the man is on a whole nother level. So let's get down to it, what's the number one? And we're not ranking number one, but let's start with the first one with you know what is the first key for a strategy? First key strategy for cultivating a successful relationship.

Speaker 1: 8:59

So the number one thing, because the first complaint I typically get in couples or marital counseling is that we don't communicate. We don't know how to communicate, we suck at communicating. Okay, and side note, to preface what you were saying about women and men who do women usually go to for dating advice?

Speaker 2: 9:19

My girlfriends.

Speaker 1: 9:20

Yeah. So you're gonna go to a woman about a man's perspective and I tell my friends this all the time. I say, listen, you can go to your women when you're like you know, act up. You know, grows before whatever, sisters before misters, all that stuff, you know, gtl, gym, tan, laundry, all that stuff is great. But if you want a male perspective, you should probably go to a male friend. And again, men come to me. My male friends, mike, my circle of friends, come to me about stuff. So they'll talk to me.

Speaker 1: 9:52

But I always say, like, well, have you talked to the person? Well, no, they understand what I mean, they get it. No, no, no, no. Have you talked to them? Did you sit down and tell them exactly how you feel? Well, no, we've been going out for 20 years or we've been married for 30 years and they should know they should, but they might not.

Speaker 1: 10:13

So I call communicating to clarify and get understanding. Why do I call it that? Because we communicate all day. We talk to people all day on the phone. I talk to my wife, text, facetime, all the phone calls all day. So we do communicate, but what we're not doing is not getting understanding. We're not getting an understanding of, okay, well, what's actually going on in my wife's head? What's going on in my husband's head Boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever it may be.

Speaker 1: 10:38

If you don't get an understanding, how can you move forward and address the issue? You can Also people falsely believe that if I'm upset, lisa, if me and you're gonna turn argument, I feel like I'm telling you how I feel for Lisa, I'm telling Lisa how I feel for Achille and that need for the person to understand or hear me and all that stuff. No, you need to unburden it first. You need to say how you feel, then they're gonna process it and digest it in their own space. So that's communicating, understand.

Speaker 1: 11:10

And the last thing I say about that is if you don't understand, are you asking? Are you asking oh hey, I don't get, what do you mean? So you're telling me that you're upset about so-and-so. Are you gonna tell me why? I don't understand? I don't get it. And that's a lot of the disconnect, because the way men process stuff and the way women process stuff is real different and a lot of these issues, a lot of these things that come up because the way a man looks at something and the way a woman looks like we're socially engineered differently. You know the things we're taught to play with and hang out and do, and men are typically taught to provide and women are typically taught to nurture.

Speaker 1: 11:54

What we're seeing now is a little bit of a change, where I know they say masculine, feminine energy. A lot of women have a lot of masculine energy and a lot of men have a lot of feminine energy. There's nothing wrong with that. But what are you doing with that energy? What are you doing with that information base? So get the understanding. If you don't understand, ask your wife oh hey, what do you mean? You frustrated? I don't understand, I don't get it. That's the one you have questions there?

Speaker 2: 12:25

Yes, I do, of course you do you?

Speaker 2: 12:26

really unloaded a lot there. Well, let me first ask you this because, honestly, even though I said you know we're not ranking it, I'm almost going to say this is the number one, because let's say that you are trying to express yourself and then that person's like I don't want to hear it, I don't want to hear it, no, not, not. I'm not even giving you that opportunity to talk and express yourself and they're literally giving you that wall, that wall so that you can't even like say you're not feeling her. So, as a woman, as a woman or any woman you know, or even a man, want to explain actually, man and woman you want to tell somebody how you feel, and that person's like I don't want to hear it, and they give you the wall. And then how does that make you feel? You feel unheard. And then you feel like what do you do with all that? And it just piles. I mean, would you say it could just keep piling until you explode.

Speaker 1: 13:34

So I'm going to use what you said because you so eloquently laid the foundation for me to go on to the next one. But a lot of times what happens is we get the idea of acceptance and agreement mixed up, somebody telling me oh, he doesn't understand, she doesn't understand, they don't get it. They get it. You're not looking for them to understand, you're seeking out agreement. You want them to agree with what you're saying. Listen, my wife can tell me everything under the sun. I don't have to agree with what she feels. I do need to accept what she feels in order to take that information in the process. And if you use the same example, use stonewalling. That's what it's called. We'll talk a little bit about that later. But stonewalling and that's typically a husband trait that's a coordinate gotman, not a coordinate killer. Gotman did a seven, I think, principles for successful marriage. Stonewalling is what happens when a husband will shut down and just you know, okay, yes, dear, yes dear, or not responding, not plugged in. Well, how do I have a conversation with that? I'm not looking for a conversation. If I'm telling you what I feel, do you understand? Nod your head, I don't care if you agree with me. Do you need me to clarify anything? No, all right, we're going to the next thing. I don't have to, I don't have to go into my own world.

Speaker 1: 15:01

What happens, though, is what I call living under false narratives. What's couples? I want to see a text, a phone call, missed phone call from another woman they might not like at work. What's going on? Ask your husband about it. Nothing, oh, it's fine. Or stonewalling we already talked about this is nothing what we do, and it's both genders, but, just for the example, say, what the woman does creates a beautiful narrative, a story in her head. Oh, this is what's happening. He's talking, and he's meeting with her, and he's doing all these things. Ba, ba, ba ba. That's great.

Speaker 1: 15:41

What happens, though, is I take this narrative that I created in my head and I start moving as if that narrative is the truth. That's now become my truth, and I'm following that narrative. Now, mind you, we've never had the conversation, and the husband in the situation never said that anything was going on, but because we have this predetermination to, I have to figure this out. I have to solve this problem. I feel a feeling and it's not normal following your gut, because your gut is important. I tell people that all the time. But this is when I'm not following my gut. I'm confused and don't know. I'm not getting the answer or answers I want from the person I'm talking to. So I create these narratives in my head and now I have this person cheating and sneaking off and all this stuff. I'm reacting to that narrative.

Speaker 1: 16:26

You walk in. I've been sitting there and still for three hours creating stories. I'm pissed. We get into a big fight. What is the fight about? The woman's going to say well, I know you're doing something, this and that, bop, bop, bop, bop, because she's done her research and got her inspector gadget hat on and done deep dives and all the social medias and all that stuff. Right, here's the work on the narrative that I don't even know what you're talking about. You flip it. You can make it a man in normal, because I've seen it both ways. The false narratives thing becomes a big part because it leads to I'm upset at you and I'm getting more and more upset at you because I'm not getting either one, the feedback that I thought I was gonna get, or two, the amount of feedback. I'm gonna ask questions. Then I'm gonna ask more questions. All right, you've asked me 938 questions about this.

Speaker 2: 17:18

Okay, well played, but I don't think you answered my question because what was your question? The question was and no, and duly noted. Yes, we have these false narratives, especially if we're not getting that information. But my question was is that, and maybe not even a question moral of a statement that communication is very important? However, if you are, you're expressing yourself like many times and maybe this is me, because I'm a former therapist and I understand the importance of active, that is true you can't get rid of that. You always have active listening, like that's very important, that you, even though that person is saying something that you don't like, you have to sit there and actively listen so that I can understand you. But then being on the other side, stressing themselves, stressing themselves, you want just validation. You're not why?

Speaker 1: 18:24

Oh, I'm sorry, why? So I have a concept called validation worth verification. Do you want me to validate you in a relationship or verify that you are important to me?

Speaker 2: 18:35

That's good. Okay, I like that Drop bomb, okay, verification. But if I'm talking to you and say, hey, you know, this hurts me. And when you do this and now you're using your eye statements and they say I don't want to hear it, I don't want to hear it, then you're just left by yourself. And then how do you move forward with that?

Speaker 1: 18:57

So if we go based on an example you gave, which was a very elegantly placed example, I don't want to hear it. Okay, I need to communicate this with you. If you don't want to respond, that's fine, I'm going to give you the latitude to have your response. Your response could be not responding, and that's this takes, okay. So this is a complex skill A lot of patients to let your partner say what they need to say. Take your five, 10 minutes, then respond or walk away, and then you come back to the conversation later. Well, okay, are you done? What would you? What is it that you need me to validate? What is it that you need me?

Speaker 2: 19:41

I heard you. So you're telling somebody how you feel and let's say, you can't even tell them and I'm speaking from different experiences in my life when you're expressing yourself and if someone's not even giving you the opportunity, doesn't want to hear it, and it's like, okay, well then, how do I let you know how I feel when you? How do I use my I statements? I feel blank when you blank and then you don't even want to hear me. What does that say to me?

Speaker 1: 20:15

That's see, that's deficit in communication, because communication is not just talking, it's also, like you said, active listening, right? So what I would say is okay, you don't agree with what she's saying, so what? You don't cut her feet out, cut her legs out from how much she's talking, and vice versa. I tell people I don't care if you agree with what I'm, you could think I'm full of crap and I don't know what I'm talking about. That's fine.

Speaker 1: 20:43

But if it's your partner and it's you two together talking, there has to be some kind of acknowledgement of feelings. So this is what I call it I acknowledge how I feel. Hey, lisa, I see that you're frustrated. I am personally not ready to have this conversation now, but I see that you're frustrated. We will come back to this conversation in an hour. We will come back to this conversation tomorrow. So that's what I teach my couples, because what they have to learn is that it's not just about what you feel, and a lot of times what you said, you said validation. You don't want validation, lisa. You want acknowledgement that I'm acknowledging that you have a feeling about something.

Speaker 1: 21:23

Correct that's what you want. That's what the couple's looking for. So I need to acknowledge your feelings and then acknowledge my feelings and then set a time to come back to the conversation, because we can't just leave it, because that leads to silent treatments and forgetting about it and all that passive abuse and stuff like that. Did I answer your question, lisa?

Speaker 2: 21:40

Yes, it does, and that's very. That's exactly it. Yeah, that's a breakdown in communication and if you can't have that opportunity to express yourself, and their stonewalling all the time, all the time and they never come back to it. That's that ain't good. The next thing and you alluded and discussed that the next topic, which is, you brought up the number two, the number two key strategy was the four horsemen. What is it, the four horsemen? So yeah, talk about that.

Speaker 1: 22:20

So, Gottman, who, when you're doing any kind of therapy, you need a sort of foundation. It doesn't need to be all of it, but couples therapy, because I'm not a trained marriage and family therapist in that sense. I did do the couples course, I did the class, I got certified. I can teach couples groups, all that stuff. You need to have a foundation to work on, because in couples, a lot more than some other things, because it's two different people, you need tools. Gottman talks about the four horsemen of a relationship, like when you know things are going bad. All right. First one is criticism. Now let me ask you a question. Let's say me and you, hypothetically, are dating. Do you think it's better for you to criticize me or complain about me to me?

Speaker 2: 23:07

Wait, say that again. Well, yeah, you put it in. Do you think it's better for me to?

Speaker 1: 23:09

hypothetically dating. Yeah, let's say you're upset about something. Do you think it's better for you to give me criticism or for you to complain about me?

Speaker 2: 23:19

Well, what's the difference? Criticizing would be like putting you down, and I think both of them are putting you down like complaining and saying you do this and you do that, like nagging Uh-huh, it's probably not the best thing to do, and then criticizing it says see, you're a loser, or you know using the word.

Speaker 1: 23:38

You just illustrated it perfectly. You complain about a behavior. A complaint isn't a universal judgment on somebody's character.

Speaker 1: 23:46

A criticism is so criticism. When you start criticizing, you never help me. You're never there when I need you. You're not supportive. That unilateral judgment is usually negative one and it's a judgment on my character. You complain I hate the way you put the dishes in a dishwasher, I hate the way you pour my wine, or whatever it may be. A complaint's a complaint. I can grow out of a complaint A criticism. Is you already judging me unilaterally? Because criticism leads to contempt. Contempt is I'm just upset with you about everything and I'm just, you know, I'm gonna hold this negative feeling towards you and no matter what you do you can't win.

Speaker 1: 24:27

So now, if you've criticized me, and now I'm contemptuance against you and I start criticizing back you become what Defensive very good Defensiveness is when you know I'm not taking any accountability, I'm not owning any part of what's going on. I know we've been fighting every day for the last two weeks, but it's all Lisa's fault. I don't like the way she seasons her chicken. I don't like the way she whatever. Now I'm getting defensive. You like I'm the best cook that Tremaine and Bobby and Michael ever had in their lives. You should be more like them. Ba ba ba. Because that defensiveness means I gotta show you why. Validation versus verification, validation versus verification. I gotta show you why. And the last one is Stonewall that we talked about. Stonewall is just I can't do it anymore. I shut down, I'm not gonna respond to you.

Speaker 2: 25:26

So, okay, let me be honest here. So this terminology and it's funny, because when I went to get my graduate degree I don't remember the Gottman's for I mean maybe I did, maybe we like kind of like skimmed through it, but we didn't really like focus in on much but I will tell you that when I've heard that terminology was when people were talking about narcissism. So now the way it sounds is that this can not only happen in a narcissistic person. So here's what I'm trying to say. So someone's listening to this podcast right now, right, and you're saying all those things, and they go in on Google and they put Gatman method and they're looking at it and they're like, oh shit, this woman is a narcissist. But what's the difference between someone who might be someone or a relationship that's showing these, the Four Horsemen theories that maybe there is someone who is a narcissist, versus that, hey, this is just a couple that's having a real bad break through a bad situation and they need therapy. What's the difference?

Speaker 1: 26:43

So I'll answer it with what does a narcissist need from the person they're with? What do they feed off of? They're looking at your empathy because with narcissism and narcissistic abuse.

Speaker 1: 26:58

What I've learned from studying it more is that narcissists work under that idea of control. Yes, but I need you. If I'm the narcissist and you're the person, I need you to keep feeding me your empathy, because that's what I dwell on. You're going to keep feeding me my empathy because you want me to do what. You want me to say hey, you're the best, you're awesome, you're amazing. But that's the one thing a narcissist won't do. I mean, sometimes they'll kiss butt a little bit if they see you're upset and you're fed up, but they'll never let you get that leg up where you can be like, oh, I'm okay in our relationship. No, they keep you on your heels, they keep you guessing because they need you to keep pouring empathy into them. That's what fills their cup. Right, and we're talking about narcissistic abuse. There's no boundary. So you can say and do anything to me, but as long as you know I might give you a thumbs up. You're like, oh, I'm getting closer, I'm getting closer, I'm always getting closer. That's totally self-involved with narcissism.

Speaker 1: 28:01

And one person is one-sided. So now, if you want to parallel it, it could look like that if you're in a really bad relationship. But most relationships, if somebody's coming to couples counseling, then they probably don't do that to the extent that a narcissist will. Right. I had one couple. They were together for 40 years, almost 40 years, all the couple. She wasn't working. She was volunteering at the nun place where the nuns actually work, and she was volunteering for four hours a day. Her husband was still working full-time. She would call him, she would go bring him lunch, she would visit him. 30 years of being together, she never accused him of what. Cheating, right. False narratives, right.

Speaker 1: 28:50

Now he's created in her head. What this idea that he's cheating, he's seeing other people because she's home most of the time? How did she pour into her cup before it starts with an M, ends with an O-M? She's her mom. Her cup was full with being a parent. A lot of couples, a lot of couples struggle with. I need to keep the relationship in the relationship. Yeah, they get caught up in. I'm mom, I'm dad, I'm where husband and wife sometimes, but mom and dad first, then we're worker bees next and everything revolves around the kids or revolves around work. Well, if you're not pouring into the flow of your relationship, how does it grow? Because what's at the center of every family? That's right. The mom and the dad, mom and the mom, the dad and dad, whatever it may be, the relationship is at the center. If the foundation in the center cracks, what happens to the rest of the family? It goes by by. She didn't have the kids there anymore.

Speaker 1: 29:52

They were gone Right so now is she being narcissistic because she wants to know what he's doing, know where he's going, or she just lonely, it needs to find stuff to fill her cup because she's preoccupied with the fact that he's doing stuff and she's not doing anything. And one of the hardest things how to wrap her head around was that you have to find shit to do. What's the other difference? I would say that the difference is communication. If I know my wife wants to, really loves me and cares about me and lets me know that, I know she's not working from a narcissistic purview. If my wife is like fuck you, I'm going out, I'm going to get drunk again, I'm going to the club, that's okay. Well, you're not necessarily in it for me.

Speaker 1: 30:41

And also, the biggest piece, that's not neither one of these types of relationships. What makes the marriage work? What do you think's the centerpiece of any great marriage? Even if you argue all the time, even if you fight, even if you disagree, the best marriage is that last longest. Your husband, a watch, your best friend, the friendship, the best friendship. Why? Oh, I know he doesn't like black coffee, so I'll put a little sugar in it, but it'll be, waiting for him.

Speaker 1: 31:06

Little things, little repair attempt is called after fighting and arguing. What's her? A pair attempt? Oh, thanks hun. Oh, let's go to the movies. Let's you know? Oh, I ordered you Starbucks. Whatever it may be little things that a friend does for a friend to show they care, because that's what it gets, that's what wraps around, that's what you build the relationship around. And when you're not going on date nights and I saw one, one lady who's saying are we doing date nights are gonna save a relationship? No, but date nights are important for keeping that relationship romantic and not not, you know, transactional relationship. Look at any relationship. You can say who's friends and who's not. The ones who are friends they're probably annoying, but they're friends. Doesn't matter if they argue all the time, because what happens is I don't care if people are gonna talk about this all time, argue. All you want it's how you get through it and how you recover from it. That's more important 100%.

Speaker 2: 32:02

Yeah. So just to recap what you said, because I think oftentimes and I hate, I hate using that word Narcissism, because it's such a frickin like everyone's talking about.

Speaker 2: 32:13

I was just on another interview and her and I like that's like the buzzword and it's so like overly Spoken about, and then there's also a misunderstanding of what it really is, and then there's also a misunderstanding of what it isn't, because you know you get confused on is this or isn't? So I think the most important takeaway from what you just said is really that from if it's a narcissistic type of situation, this is a one-sided relationship.

Speaker 2: 32:40

This is someone who could give two shirts about how you feel and it's all about them, what they want, what they need. They could care less about what your wants and needs are, so like when you say you know, hey, so, and so I really you know what make me really happy. As if you, you know, I Don't know, say good morning, yeah, and then they say I'm not gonna fucking do it. Then there's a good chance not to say that that means that that person's like that, but there's a good chance they could care less about what your feelings are. And that's very one-sided, where what you just described, in the situation where it would be like a normal, normal relationship, we got a breakdown in communication, there's other things happening, there's an emptiness, there's some needs, there's, you know, there's something that that needs to be worked through. But at the end of the day and I love that you said this, because people think Arguing is a bad thing, no, just disagreeing. But I often say that is, that is how you build and that's how your relationship gets stronger.

Speaker 1: 33:50

If you're in a relationship and this is man woman, man man, whatever when your partner stops arguing with you and they okay, they're done, they tapped out the disconnected.

Speaker 2: 34:01

They done gotten the train.

Speaker 1: 34:02

They're leaving pin now because they're not plugged in. You know, somebody cares when they're arguing about it and they're fighting for you, and we have to communicate more, which is a exchange of mutual ideas, as opposed to let me have conversations. Change of a mutual ideas. I'm my idea, you're, I did. That's how we get the compromise love that okay.

Speaker 2: 34:23

The other one is what's number three rules?

Speaker 1: 34:27

engagement. So what rules? Engagement are something that I made up for my couples, who taught you how to fight what you ought to get into a fight here he goes Um, watching my well, seriously watching my parents.

Speaker 2: 34:40

Yeah, okay. So that concludes part one of my interview with my good friend, akili Carter. So please stay tuned. We're going to be dropping part two in a couple of days and you'll hear Me have a very heated discussion with my good friend, akili Carter.